Post by Old Bill on Sept 21, 2010 9:54:55 GMT -6
Just a bit of trivia, and what might have been. The Winchester Model 1907 self loading rifle.
Met someone who owned one a few years ago and did some reading up on it. Some of these were used in WWI. The British, French, Americans and Russians purchased some to arm aircraft observers and for security guards. The French were the largest purchaser. Most ended up arming security guards, but according to some articles I found small numbers were used in the trenches. According to Wiki some were converted to full auto. Winchester made a "Police" model fitted to mount a bayonet and some of the weapons sold to France were equipped with bayonets.
The .351 WSL cartridge fired a 180 gr. bullet at a bit over 1800 fps, making it significantly more powerful than the 9mm used in the MP18 (also more powerful than the .357 magnum). The biggest drawback would have been the 5 and 10 round mags that were used.
The potential here for an Allied equivalent to the German SMG is obvious, looking back. Apparently it wasn't obvious to the Ordnance departments in 1915-1918. Ironic, considering that the US Army realized the need for a bullet squirter for close combat and came up with the Pederson device to convert Springfields to fire a pipsqueak .30 cartridge on semi-auto. (A clever but impractical idea imho).
Too bad the Model 1907 didn't see widespread use. An airsoft version would have been useful.
For anyone not familiar with the Pederson Device, here's a link:
www.remingtonsociety.com/questions/Pedersen.htm
Met someone who owned one a few years ago and did some reading up on it. Some of these were used in WWI. The British, French, Americans and Russians purchased some to arm aircraft observers and for security guards. The French were the largest purchaser. Most ended up arming security guards, but according to some articles I found small numbers were used in the trenches. According to Wiki some were converted to full auto. Winchester made a "Police" model fitted to mount a bayonet and some of the weapons sold to France were equipped with bayonets.
The .351 WSL cartridge fired a 180 gr. bullet at a bit over 1800 fps, making it significantly more powerful than the 9mm used in the MP18 (also more powerful than the .357 magnum). The biggest drawback would have been the 5 and 10 round mags that were used.
The potential here for an Allied equivalent to the German SMG is obvious, looking back. Apparently it wasn't obvious to the Ordnance departments in 1915-1918. Ironic, considering that the US Army realized the need for a bullet squirter for close combat and came up with the Pederson device to convert Springfields to fire a pipsqueak .30 cartridge on semi-auto. (A clever but impractical idea imho).
Too bad the Model 1907 didn't see widespread use. An airsoft version would have been useful.
For anyone not familiar with the Pederson Device, here's a link:
www.remingtonsociety.com/questions/Pedersen.htm
